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Whipstitch
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Post by Whipstitch »

shadzar wrote: they think everything must fit with the attention span of children, like your goldfish example, and most children these days are ALLOWED to have that kind of attention span because all the tech they are flooded with and playing Ash Ketchum and having to catch each new device when it comes out.

That actually runs counter to both what studies have turned up and the hard won experience of the poor, intrepid bastards out there who set out to make kid's entertainment. Within the industry it's a mode of thinking that was forced into extinction, buried under the corpses of a thousand long dead failures of the form. People tried flash and sizzle back in the '70s with Sesame Street and while that show became something of a cultural institution, it also didn't succeed at the level its creators hoped it would, in large part because their experience was in work for advertisements and as it turns out, Mr. Rogers was right all along: assuming kids have short attention spans and throwing too many elements into the mix "just to keep things moving" is one of the most damaging things you can do to your show. If you run things shorter than 10 minutes or so and never give kids a chance to properly integrate new information, you can totally lose them and never, ever get them back, because they'll just go back to thinking about whatever it was that last made sense before you tried distracting them with your anarchic bullshit. The younger the kid, the more conservative you actually have to get with the novel elements, which is why Blue's Clues is about a blue dog in a blue house who hangs out with one person at a time and also pretty much the most wildly successful kiddie show ever.

So, yeah, I know it's fun to blame the industry and not the audiences, but here's the grim truth of the matter: people like things to make sense and they are actually conservative with their attention. When your hot new crazy show fails to hold onto viewers, it is not just because they decided they didn't like your show and deactivated like robots until the next new show they can reject comes on. It's because they had a choice: Watch your shit that they aren't sure they'll want to really invest in, or go back to watching CSI. In other words, the problem isn't that people have short attention spans, it's that in a very real way they have very long attention spans and will fuck around on Facebook or watch Seinfeld until either the heat death of the universe or until you finally come up with a show that they can't ignore.

So why is anime so short then if people like familiarity? Because people already get their does of familiarity from Naruto, One Piece, and DBZ, the shows that were lucky/good enough to break through and grab their spot in the mental queue. The short shows survive by scooping up what little money there is to be made by keeping production costs reasonable and being part of the product churn that naturally surrounds a hit driven industry.
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Post by shadzar »

you better check again. anime is driven not by american standards but japanese. they buy mostly gimmicks and anime there is geared mostly at younger audiences and about 10,000 more shows than will ever be seen in the USA. anime is there sesame street and such. and they sell products to kids at that early age just as quickly as teens.

i will bet you there is 10"1 divices in the average japanese home than there is the US home with all these gimmicks. and when each one teeters on the edge and a new one comes along, everyone switches to the newest fad for as long as they can ride it; from lunch boxes/bags, to band-aids, to cell phone straps to keychains, to iPhone covers, to whatever tomorrow holds.

it is a world driven by gimmick/speed marketing. if you spend too much on last weeks fashion you will miss next months fashion when it comes out yesterday.
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Post by Whipstitch »

So now American bastardization which insists on butchering the form is just fallout from an alien, trend-driven Japanese always-plugged-in approach to entertainment? Nice goalpost shift there.
Last edited by Whipstitch on Tue Apr 30, 2013 1:27 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by Foxwarrior »

To put things in context: these "short attention spans" were brought up in the context of shows that are only 13 to 26 episodes long. That's 4 to 8 hours.

That's only "the attention span of a goldfish" if you scale time by brain mass.

Personally, I like it when shows don't go for too many seasons, because that tends to mean that the developers have thought about how to conclude the show in an interesting way, which also means that the random clues in the middle are more likely to be meaningful.
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Post by Whipstitch »

Exactly. Getting really long running shows running on all cylinders is way harder than with a shorter series because you almost have to have filler by design. There's a reason that the vast majority of US shows don't make the 100 episode mark even though networks had every incentive in the world to try and make it there since that's when you can charge through the nose for syndication. Meanwhile South America loves them some telenovelas, the Brits are big on the mini-series and the Japanese run a lot of topical issue-of-the-week dramas. It's not an accident. Your shows are running on borrowed time when you run out of ideas and stop being coherent. People aren't always articulate and they may not know what they want, but they are rather more intuitive than we often like to admit and they totes will throw giant bitch fits when a show runs out of rail. That's just story telling 101 and it's a way more sensible explanation than banging the just world hypothesis drums and saying that you like anime but the mean ol' suits in the media production company are just refusing to make all that delicious money because they are dumb and don't understand, man.
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Post by Stahlseele »

@Valvrave the Liberator:
OK, i did NOT expect them to do that . .
But one thing is really grinding on my nerves . .
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/M ... tousGerman

Edit:
WARNING!
TVTROPES WILL RUIN YOUR LIFE
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/M ... inYourLife


Hmm, Photokano is, surprisingly, not all about FanService o.O
Last edited by Stahlseele on Fri May 03, 2013 9:33 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Shrapnel wrote:
TFwiki wrote:Soon is the name of the region in the time-domain (familiar to all marketing departments, and to the moderators and staff of Fun Publications) which sees release of all BotCon news, club exclusives, and other fan desirables. Soon is when then will become now.

Peculiar properties of spacetime ensure that the perception of the magnitude of Soon is fluid and dependent, not on an individual's time-reference, but on spatial and cultural location. A marketer generally perceives Soon as a finite, known, yet unspeakable time-interval; to a fan, the interval appears greater, and may in fact approach the infinite, becoming Never. Once the interval has passed, however, a certain time-lensing effect seems to occur, and the time-interval becomes vanishingly small. We therefore see the strange result that the same fragment of spacetime may be observed, in quick succession, as Soon, Never, and All Too Quickly.
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Post by shadzar »

Foxwarrior wrote:Personally, I like it when shows don't go for too many seasons, because that tends to mean that the developers have thought about how to conclude the show in an interesting way, which also means that the random clues in the middle are more likely to be meaningful.
that is fine for a show being created out of nothing, but when you run into shows that continue on and they just quit making episodes like: InuYasha, Bleach, etc it really gives nothing to the viewer except have less hope for anime in general.

or when they play the gimmick card to jump on the fad bandwagon with shows like Gauken Alice and only make 12 episodes that tell nothing while the manga continues on for another 5 years.

it would be like turning LotR into a 30 minute program...it just doesnt work that well when you try to compress so much into such a short time. that is why Game of Thrones exists as a series rather than being butchered as movies.

yeah filler happens so a license isnt lost or viewer interest isnt lost, but the Kenpachis fighting takes 3 manga chapters while it would last maybe 5 minutes in "live" viewing.

Not many are as lucky as DBZ and Naruto to be able to finish a series, but it would be better to find a manga that is meant to be small and make all of it, that make an anime out of 1/100th of a manga and only show the first part or try to condense it all down for time.
Play the game, not the rules.
Swordslinger wrote:Or fuck it... I'm just going to get weapon specialization in my cock and whip people to death with it. Given all the enemies are total pussies, it seems like the appropriate thing to do.
Lewis Black wrote:If the people of New Zealand want to be part of our world, I believe they should hop off their islands, and push 'em closer.
good read (Note to self Maxus sucks a barrel of cocks.)
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Post by Shrapnel »

Stahlseele wrote:@Space-Pirates Movie and soon:
Sure, if you see some time, probably middle 2014 as soon . .
TFwiki wrote:Soon is the name of the region in the time-domain (familiar to all marketing departments, and to the moderators and staff of Fun Publications) which sees release of all BotCon news, club exclusives, and other fan desirables. Soon is when then will become now.

Peculiar properties of spacetime ensure that the perception of the magnitude of Soon is fluid and dependent, not on an individual's time-reference, but on spatial and cultural location. A marketer generally perceives Soon as a finite, known, yet unspeakable time-interval; to a fan, the interval appears greater, and may in fact approach the infinite, becoming Never. Once the interval has passed, however, a certain time-lensing effect seems to occur, and the time-interval becomes vanishingly small. We therefore see the strange result that the same fragment of spacetime may be observed, in quick succession, as Soon, Never, and All Too Quickly.
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Post by Stahlseele »

a sad truth ._.
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Shrapnel wrote:
TFwiki wrote:Soon is the name of the region in the time-domain (familiar to all marketing departments, and to the moderators and staff of Fun Publications) which sees release of all BotCon news, club exclusives, and other fan desirables. Soon is when then will become now.

Peculiar properties of spacetime ensure that the perception of the magnitude of Soon is fluid and dependent, not on an individual's time-reference, but on spatial and cultural location. A marketer generally perceives Soon as a finite, known, yet unspeakable time-interval; to a fan, the interval appears greater, and may in fact approach the infinite, becoming Never. Once the interval has passed, however, a certain time-lensing effect seems to occur, and the time-interval becomes vanishingly small. We therefore see the strange result that the same fragment of spacetime may be observed, in quick succession, as Soon, Never, and All Too Quickly.
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Post by name_here »

The Third: The Girl With The Blue Eye

It's set in a world where after a devastating war a group of mutants called the Third imposed technological restrictions on humanity. Considering that the approved tech list includes strong AI, I'm not entirely clear on why this is a huge problem for people. The main character, Honoka, is a freelance doer of stuff, roaming around the desert and taking any job that doesn't involve killing people. Giant acid-spitting spiders are another matter.

Probably the most amusing moment was when the main character got flustered and embarrassed over her gun collection hobby. Her robot tank keeps needling her about how much she spends on guns, what with her primary weapon being a sword. Apparently she blew a giant pile of money on an outdated and not very reliable anti-material rifle because it looked cool sitting in the cabinet with her giant pile of submachine guns. Seriously, she has something like ten uzis and the only handheld gun she's actually used is a pistol.
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Post by Stahlseele »

That sounds kinda interesting O.o

Sadly, i am somewhat disappointed in Railfu S <.<
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Shrapnel wrote:
TFwiki wrote:Soon is the name of the region in the time-domain (familiar to all marketing departments, and to the moderators and staff of Fun Publications) which sees release of all BotCon news, club exclusives, and other fan desirables. Soon is when then will become now.

Peculiar properties of spacetime ensure that the perception of the magnitude of Soon is fluid and dependent, not on an individual's time-reference, but on spatial and cultural location. A marketer generally perceives Soon as a finite, known, yet unspeakable time-interval; to a fan, the interval appears greater, and may in fact approach the infinite, becoming Never. Once the interval has passed, however, a certain time-lensing effect seems to occur, and the time-interval becomes vanishingly small. We therefore see the strange result that the same fragment of spacetime may be observed, in quick succession, as Soon, Never, and All Too Quickly.
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Post by Stahlseele »

@Gargantia 5
I WAS wondering how they were gonna do the Beach Service Episode without, you know, a beach on the whole world . .
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Shrapnel wrote:
TFwiki wrote:Soon is the name of the region in the time-domain (familiar to all marketing departments, and to the moderators and staff of Fun Publications) which sees release of all BotCon news, club exclusives, and other fan desirables. Soon is when then will become now.

Peculiar properties of spacetime ensure that the perception of the magnitude of Soon is fluid and dependent, not on an individual's time-reference, but on spatial and cultural location. A marketer generally perceives Soon as a finite, known, yet unspeakable time-interval; to a fan, the interval appears greater, and may in fact approach the infinite, becoming Never. Once the interval has passed, however, a certain time-lensing effect seems to occur, and the time-interval becomes vanishingly small. We therefore see the strange result that the same fragment of spacetime may be observed, in quick succession, as Soon, Never, and All Too Quickly.
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Post by Stahlseele »

Valvrave the Liberator is a genuinely good show for me!
And Photokano is really good, even if it's meant to be pure Fanservice . .
Last edited by Stahlseele on Fri May 10, 2013 11:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Welcome, to IronHell.
Shrapnel wrote:
TFwiki wrote:Soon is the name of the region in the time-domain (familiar to all marketing departments, and to the moderators and staff of Fun Publications) which sees release of all BotCon news, club exclusives, and other fan desirables. Soon is when then will become now.

Peculiar properties of spacetime ensure that the perception of the magnitude of Soon is fluid and dependent, not on an individual's time-reference, but on spatial and cultural location. A marketer generally perceives Soon as a finite, known, yet unspeakable time-interval; to a fan, the interval appears greater, and may in fact approach the infinite, becoming Never. Once the interval has passed, however, a certain time-lensing effect seems to occur, and the time-interval becomes vanishingly small. We therefore see the strange result that the same fragment of spacetime may be observed, in quick succession, as Soon, Never, and All Too Quickly.
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Post by fectin »

Whipstitch wrote:stuff
I think of it kind of like syncopation or jazz: once you have a solid rhythm going, deviating from and returning to it is great. The further you get from the rhythm though, though more you risk turning into noise. Worse, how simple the rhythm has to be, and how far you can get away from it are determined mostly by your listener, not by you.

In this metaphor, as in real life, kids aren't real good at complex pattern recognition yet, so you have to have a simple rhythm without a lot of syncopation. It's not that you can't play riffs, it's just that you can only have one soloist at a time, and he can't be very adventurous.
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Post by Stahlseele »

ookaayy . . Railgun S 05 went dark pretty fast x.x
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Shrapnel wrote:
TFwiki wrote:Soon is the name of the region in the time-domain (familiar to all marketing departments, and to the moderators and staff of Fun Publications) which sees release of all BotCon news, club exclusives, and other fan desirables. Soon is when then will become now.

Peculiar properties of spacetime ensure that the perception of the magnitude of Soon is fluid and dependent, not on an individual's time-reference, but on spatial and cultural location. A marketer generally perceives Soon as a finite, known, yet unspeakable time-interval; to a fan, the interval appears greater, and may in fact approach the infinite, becoming Never. Once the interval has passed, however, a certain time-lensing effect seems to occur, and the time-interval becomes vanishingly small. We therefore see the strange result that the same fragment of spacetime may be observed, in quick succession, as Soon, Never, and All Too Quickly.
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Post by name_here »

Index spoilers:
And the first Sister encountered in Index was 10031, so, it's probably going to stay dark for a while.
Last edited by name_here on Sun May 12, 2013 4:08 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by Stahlseele »

i'm by now at about 50% of dropping Ralgun S . . it's missing what i loved about the first season . .

furthermore, i just brute forced my way through all of patlabor aside from the new files, because i could not aquire these as of yet . . sadly, the old ones are still the best series usually . .

Next up?
Watching Episode 5 of Hentai Prince and Stonefaced Kitten, then Episode 6 of new Nyaruku and Gargantia.
And then i will probably start with AD Police and then BGC.
Last edited by Stahlseele on Sun May 12, 2013 7:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Welcome, to IronHell.
Shrapnel wrote:
TFwiki wrote:Soon is the name of the region in the time-domain (familiar to all marketing departments, and to the moderators and staff of Fun Publications) which sees release of all BotCon news, club exclusives, and other fan desirables. Soon is when then will become now.

Peculiar properties of spacetime ensure that the perception of the magnitude of Soon is fluid and dependent, not on an individual's time-reference, but on spatial and cultural location. A marketer generally perceives Soon as a finite, known, yet unspeakable time-interval; to a fan, the interval appears greater, and may in fact approach the infinite, becoming Never. Once the interval has passed, however, a certain time-lensing effect seems to occur, and the time-interval becomes vanishingly small. We therefore see the strange result that the same fragment of spacetime may be observed, in quick succession, as Soon, Never, and All Too Quickly.
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Post by Koumei »

Stahlseele wrote: And Photokano is really good, even if it's meant to be pure Fanservice . .
Duly noted, I shall tjeck it out!
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Post by Stahlseele »

Valvrave now at x2.
Photo Kano still tries desperately to be pure fanservice but fails in an impressive way O.o
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Shrapnel wrote:
TFwiki wrote:Soon is the name of the region in the time-domain (familiar to all marketing departments, and to the moderators and staff of Fun Publications) which sees release of all BotCon news, club exclusives, and other fan desirables. Soon is when then will become now.

Peculiar properties of spacetime ensure that the perception of the magnitude of Soon is fluid and dependent, not on an individual's time-reference, but on spatial and cultural location. A marketer generally perceives Soon as a finite, known, yet unspeakable time-interval; to a fan, the interval appears greater, and may in fact approach the infinite, becoming Never. Once the interval has passed, however, a certain time-lensing effect seems to occur, and the time-interval becomes vanishingly small. We therefore see the strange result that the same fragment of spacetime may be observed, in quick succession, as Soon, Never, and All Too Quickly.
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Post by Stahlseele »

Hentai Ouji to Warawanai Neko < = so. cute! @.@
also, full of fanservice galore due to the main being a pervert not seen since rogue hero . .
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Shrapnel wrote:
TFwiki wrote:Soon is the name of the region in the time-domain (familiar to all marketing departments, and to the moderators and staff of Fun Publications) which sees release of all BotCon news, club exclusives, and other fan desirables. Soon is when then will become now.

Peculiar properties of spacetime ensure that the perception of the magnitude of Soon is fluid and dependent, not on an individual's time-reference, but on spatial and cultural location. A marketer generally perceives Soon as a finite, known, yet unspeakable time-interval; to a fan, the interval appears greater, and may in fact approach the infinite, becoming Never. Once the interval has passed, however, a certain time-lensing effect seems to occur, and the time-interval becomes vanishingly small. We therefore see the strange result that the same fragment of spacetime may be observed, in quick succession, as Soon, Never, and All Too Quickly.
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Post by Surgo »

Foxwarrior wrote:To put things in context: these "short attention spans" were brought up in the context of shows that are only 13 to 26 episodes long. That's 4 to 8 hours.
Trying to make a measurement of depth based on time can end up being pretty damn retarded, too. Serial Experiments Lain was only 13 episodes long, but is one of the most dense works in the medium. Goldfish attention spans will be gone before the second episode even ends.

Plus, as was already mentioned, the creators had a complete vision for the story which is completely told (in, admittedly, an extremely unusual fashion). That vision just happened to be exactly thirteen episodes.
Last edited by Surgo on Sun May 19, 2013 3:54 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by Mistborn »

Yuyushiki continues to be one of the better slice of life series, if your the type for cute girls doing cute things with yuri subtext consider checking it out.
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Post by Stahlseele »

sounds like my kind of series, thank you for telling me that.


Hmm, kinda as if Lucky Star had grown up. A bit.
Sadly nowhere near as well drawn as
these:

[HorribleSubs] Suisei no Gargantia
[HorribleSubs] Hentai Ouji to Warawanai Neko
[HorribleSubs] Photo Kano
[HorribleSubs] Haiyore! Nyaruko-san W
[gg]_Valvrave_the_Liberator

i think i may have been spoiled by their graphical grandeur <.<;,
Last edited by Stahlseele on Tue May 21, 2013 11:50 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Shrapnel wrote:
TFwiki wrote:Soon is the name of the region in the time-domain (familiar to all marketing departments, and to the moderators and staff of Fun Publications) which sees release of all BotCon news, club exclusives, and other fan desirables. Soon is when then will become now.

Peculiar properties of spacetime ensure that the perception of the magnitude of Soon is fluid and dependent, not on an individual's time-reference, but on spatial and cultural location. A marketer generally perceives Soon as a finite, known, yet unspeakable time-interval; to a fan, the interval appears greater, and may in fact approach the infinite, becoming Never. Once the interval has passed, however, a certain time-lensing effect seems to occur, and the time-interval becomes vanishingly small. We therefore see the strange result that the same fragment of spacetime may be observed, in quick succession, as Soon, Never, and All Too Quickly.
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Post by Shrapnel »

So, I don't know if Pokémon would count as an anime or overdrawn former-cultural-phenomenon-turned-agonizingly-bad-Cartoon-Network-mainstay, but...

I've heard that future episodes are going to feature a lot of shit from when the show was good (like the first two, three seasons), such as Ash's Charizard returning to join his team.

As a fan of those good ol' days, I've been following the recent episodes to see things like that. For the most part, the show is still not as good as it used to be (will it ever be? I mean, the most recent episode in Japan was number 788...), but I will give it mad props for: A) Making Bianca not a hideously annoying freak of nature, and B) Making N not a hideously annoying moralizing freak of nature.

Still waiting for Charizard, though.
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Post by Koumei »

Watched one and a half episodes of Photo Kano, and so far I'm not really impressed. Nice quality and all, but the story/character interaction is pretty bland and not intent on moving anywhere, something about the characters themselves doesn't sit right with me, and it doesn't even make up for that with fan service, because seriously, there's barely any.

When you said there was so much fan service, I was expecting something like Rosario to Vampire/Agent Aika/Ikkitousen, or at least Freezing.
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